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Frog
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PostSubject: Plot holes   Sun Nov 01, 2009 2:11 am

Yes, everyone knows golden sun has a few plot holes.
So why don't we name them, and see if we can solve some!
This applies to both games.

1. Isaacs boat.
Not really a plot hole, just unexplained... seriously where did it go!?

2. How did Isaac and crew get into the jupiter lighthouse without Cyclone?
This one i can't explain.

3. How did saturos and crew (including sheba) climb the venus lighthouse without reveal?
My theory on this one is that perhaps alex warped them inside?


Last edited by Frog on Sun Nov 01, 2009 6:21 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Plot holes   Sun Nov 01, 2009 5:28 am

How about when Garet freaks out when mars Lighthouse is lit?
He says that something grabbed him.
Oh, and nice idea on plot hole number 3! But that leads us to another plot hole: How come Alex can have teleport psynergy? (similar to teleport at least.)
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PostSubject: Re: Plot holes   Sun Nov 01, 2009 5:54 am

well theres only one teleport lapis, halt gem etc, Alex could have easily found/stolen/got a teleporting item and the party would never be able to find a second one.
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PostSubject: Re: Plot holes   Sun Nov 01, 2009 6:13 am

Ops, I meant that he used a diferent kind of teleport. Possibly water elemental. Either way, It's plausible that he actually found either a Teleport Lapis or psynergy item that Felix never found.
Oh, and about plot hole 2: can't Isaac get the Ninja class?If i'm not mistaken he learns Gale (same as whirlwind).
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PostSubject: Re: Plot holes   Sun Nov 01, 2009 6:21 am

Oooops, i meant to say cyclone, ivan already has whirlwind!
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PostSubject: Re: Plot holes   Sun Nov 01, 2009 7:53 am

Well, maybe they found a Cyclone Chip while they were trying to find Lemuria for Babi. But they somehow lost it/dropped it when they fought Karst and Agatio (or because of Karst's trap) on Jupiter Lighthouse.
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PostSubject: Re: Plot holes   Sun Nov 01, 2009 11:00 am

Hm... That would be plausible. Also, it is nice to talk about plot holes as well.

For #2, I was wondering about this at first as well, but perhaps they somehow snuck in after Felix and co. entered?

Lets see if I can think of one...

Well, this isn't really a plot HOLE, but if you go to the Forest near Kolima, and fight Trent with Mia, the mayor of Kolima does not acknowledge her, he refers to the group as "the three boys". I am guessing that women's rights in this region do not count for anything??? Lol.

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PostSubject: Re: Plot holes   Sun Nov 01, 2009 11:40 am

Alex stole Isaacs and COs boat.
Alex learned how to use the Warp psynergy on his own [he is the most powerful adept in Weyard remember-evidenced by the fact that he can fly , has the Geyser Psynergy , etc.
Saturos and Menardi could quite easily get an item that bestows Reveal.
Not sure about the Jupiter Lighthouse bit though....
And for the Garet bit on MKars Lighthouse-Golden Sun 3.
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PostSubject: Re: Plot holes   Sun Nov 01, 2009 12:16 pm

Yes, but if Alex stole their boat, then how did they get to Contigo in the first place?

That would make sense, except that if he could just use a plain Warp psynergy, then why didn't he light the lighthouses himself? He could have stolen the stars if he was the most powerful adept.

They could have, but that would mean that only Sheba could use it, and she doesn't have Reveal when you get her in the second Golden Sun (I thought they said that only Jupiter Adepts could learn Reveal).

Yeah, that part is extremely flaky.

That makes sense.

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PostSubject: Re: Plot holes   Mon Nov 02, 2009 2:22 am

Alex probably didn't know much about the lighthouses except for the power they hold, which is why he joined saturos's party.
After Saturos died he spent most of his time trying to get to Mt. Aleph, and used Agatio/karst to make sure Felix got the job done.

There was no reason for him to steal the stars back from you as he knew you'd be able to light the remaining lighthouses.

That kinda makes sense anyway.
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PostSubject: Re: Plot holes   Mon Nov 02, 2009 2:54 am

Alex needed to be at Mount Aleph the moment all the light houses were lit to recieve the power of the golden sun.

for #3 is it possible that sheba intuitively knew how get in without it?
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PostSubject: Re: Plot holes   Mon Nov 02, 2009 8:42 am

Actually, couldn't Alex have warped Saturos and Co. Past that electric barrier in the regular Venus lighthouse entrance?

This makes perfect sense if Saturos hadn't gone through the other entrance...
Why would they do things the hard way?
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PostSubject: Re: Plot holes   Mon Nov 02, 2009 9:05 am

Oh yeah, I forgot tht detail about him having to be there. Well, he could have stolen the stars, lit the first three Lighthouses, and then make sure that Felix and co. recieved the Mrs Star.

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PostSubject: Re: Plot holes   Mon Nov 02, 2009 9:31 am

Alex needed to go with Saturos to get the stars, but after that yes he COULD have lit three himself, but would Felix have been strong enough to light mars on his own?
I think Alex wanted Isaac/felix to light all 4 lighthouses, as they'd get stronger.

Plus, i don't think Alex wanted to have to fight Saturos for the stars.
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PostSubject: Re: Plot holes   Mon Nov 02, 2009 1:18 pm

For #3, Alex just warped past the door.
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PostSubject: Re: Plot holes   Mon Nov 02, 2009 1:40 pm

Guys, keep in mind that for some of these things, it's as simple as: They can use a psynergy that you never have access to. For example, Alex's Geyser and 'Mist' techniques. Both are arguably water psynergies. While Teleport uses a circle to transport from point A to point B, Mist doesn't seem to need one. However, UNLIKE teleport, it's range seems quite limited. After all, Teleport can take you all the way from the Mars Lighthouse to freaking YALLAM. That's literally on the other side of the world. However, the most we've EVER seen with this "Mist" technique is a somewhat short jump. This seems to imply that the target may have to be in the same area (read: screen) in order to be preformed. Although those are only two examples, I'd argue that there's plenty more where that came from. S&M could just have a psynergetic tool (akin to douse drop or tremor bit) that you just never got. That could be how they got there.

The thing with Garet's arm could be a translation error. For all we know, his arm could have been bothering him after the jupiter lighthouse incident. It could just be that, you know, since he's Mars, and the MARS beacon was just lit, the injury/sore arm could just have flash-healed, which would be quite noticeable. He may have thought that someone was casting a healing psynergy on it, thus the 'touching/grabbing my arm' comment.


However, some questions are much more valid... Where's Isaac's boat, for instance. It's out there, somewhere, and you even have the orb to help guide it (whether you like it or not). But it never shows up. This is likely simply an oversight by the programmers, however, and has little relevancy to the plot.

Now, how Isaac and co got that far without cyclone is a good question, but the easiest answer would be "they took a different route there than you". That's more plot device than plot hole...

If you think about some of these so-called holes, you can easily fill them in. However, lingering questions are what I'd like to see answered... The most obvious one being: What the hell happened to Alex?!

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PostSubject: Re: Plot holes   Mon Nov 02, 2009 4:54 pm

Yeah. However, some of these plot devices could be explained a bit more... For example, Isaac taking a different route in Jupiter Lighthouse... I would imagine that it is pretty hard to find a different route to get into a building with no doors, my next guess for that would be to, er... Possibly there is a door at the back of the Lighthouse?

Felix: Hey, its Isaac!

Jenna: How did you get in here? We had to go to a different continent to get a special psynergy...

Isaac: Oh, I just used the back door.

Jenna: Oh...



This reminds me. How did Isaac and co. get to the higher levels of Jupiter Ligthhouse if Hover is needed? Yeah, an alternate path could be possible to get in, but I doubt that any of them spout wings for that tiny bit (and if they could, then why not use these wings to rescue Mia and Garet, who would probably have to fly up themselves).

Also, Garet's arm does make sense, but why did it take him so long to mention anything about it? I am surprised that he never said that his arm was sore anywhere else but at Jupiter Lighthouse (sore, numb, whatever).

Yeah, where did Alex go? I actually had a funny dream a while ago about a sequel for Golden Sun on the Wii (over a year or two ago), and Alex was under Mt. Aleph with white hair and pale skin, due to not having any sunlight. However, the dream started introducing places like downtown cities and cell phones, yet it was still about Golden Sun.

As for Isaac's ship, I have a new theory... After the tremor at Jupiter Lighthouse, it went sailing for a bit, and then it sank. It would be nice if more text was added saying this. For example...

Guy: After Mt. Jupiter was lit, I saw a large ship sailing off into the sea. However, it sunk underwater shortly afterwards. I hope that nobody drowned in it.


And for another new mystery... Where did the ship in Idejima go?

Have a nice day.
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PostSubject: Re: Plot holes   Mon Nov 02, 2009 5:01 pm

There's a plot hole there too.

Alex: "We set sail after the beacon is lit."

They can't! They don't have the Black Orb for that ship!

What should have been said afterwards:

Jenna: Do you have the thingy to power the ship?

Alex: Yes.

Sheba: So, then we're going now? Yay!

Alex: We have to wait for the beacon to be lit, though.

Kraden (or whoever says that line): That's strange, it hasn't been lit yet.

And then all the rest of that stuff happens. Anyway, what happened to the ship was that the tidal wave sank it probably. But then everyone else is later saying "we could use Saturos and Menardi's ship, but the orb is at the bottom of the sea with them". The fact is, Alex has to have the orb, or they wouldn't have been able to sail off at the beginning like they were planning to.
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PostSubject: Re: Plot holes   Mon Nov 02, 2009 6:20 pm

Oh yeah, that is right... But why didn't the island sink as well? Of course, it would kind of be hard to play if it sinks...

We still have to decide how Isaac and co. got to the top of Jupiter Lighthouse without Hover. I kind of doubt that they joined Alex just to go to the top of the Lighthouse.

Oh, and another one... Where is the island that you can get to in Karagol Sea? The island seems really big to fit there for it to not be seen from the shores, and it isn't in either the Eastern or Westen Seas. What was that island called again? It had Deadbeard in it.

And I suppose that there is another one.

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PostSubject: Re: Plot holes   Tue Nov 03, 2009 1:39 am

Well I imagine that after dreadbeard was defeated, the island must have sunk into the sea.
And isn't it not reachable unless you get lost or something?

that or like prox it isn't on any map/reachable.
Also, did Alex know Saturos and Mernardi died when he talked about using the orb?
*doesn't remember*
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PostSubject: Re: Plot holes   Tue Nov 03, 2009 2:02 am

how is it that you can only get to vale past the venus lighthouse?
i doubt there was only one beach on that continent, the only other way is via glitch so how is it possible for isaacs group to get so far without very much equipment?
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PostSubject: Re: Plot holes   Tue Nov 03, 2009 2:04 am

As much as you doubt there was only one beach, the game clearly shows the entire continent, and there is no beach...so you just gotta regard that as fact.
And what do you mean get far without equipment?
If you mean after Venus lighthouse... they had tons of psynergy and equipment by then.

And Isaacs boat doesn't need a beach to land/sail from as there was a dock at the end of #1.
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